A Biblical View on Women’s Ordination

Dr. Pieter Damsteegt explains how women’s ordination conflicts with three of our Biblical doctrines in this brief twenty minute presentation given at the 1995 General Conference session.

Pieter Gerardus Damsteegt
Born in the Netherlands, Dr. Pieter Gerardus Damsteegt is a graduate of Newbold College in England and received a master’s degree from Andrews University, a doctorate from Free University in Amsterdam, and his M.P.H. from Loma Linda University. He is the author of Foundations of the Seventh-day Adventist Message and Mission and Seventh-day Adventists Believe. He has served as a missionary in Thailand and Korea, when he established the Far Eastern Division Soul Winning Institute. Today he is a professor of church history at Andrews University.

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  • Ellen White

    “women who are willing to consecrate some of their time to the service of the Lord should be appointed to visit the sick, look after the young, and minister to the necessities of the poor. They should be set apart to this work by prayer and laying on of hands. In some cases they will need to counsel with the church officers or the minister; but if they are devoted women, maintaining a vital connection with God, they will be a power for good in the church. This is another means of strengthening and building up the church.” (RH, July 9, 1895)

    • Larry Green

      Note that EGW said “In some cases they will need to counsel WITH…the minister; (but not BE the minister).

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1566499432 Sarah Sulton

        Actually it says, “church officers or the minister”. are you also stating that church officers should only men as well?

    • All4Him2

      The
      primary object of our college was to afford
      young men an
      opportunity to study for the ministry and to prepare young persons of both
      sexes to become workers in the various branches of the cause. 5T page 60.

      Those who
      enter the missionary field should be men and women who walk and talk with God. Those who stand as
      ministers in the sacred desk should be men of blameless reputation. 5T page 598

  • Kathy
  • Rose

    every word of God is pure. He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him. add thou not unto His word lest He reprove thee and thou be found a liar.
    To the law and to the testimony if they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them.
    study to show thyself approved unto God. A workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings for they shall increase unto more ungodliness.
    If any man shall add unto these things,God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: and if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are writtten in this book.
    All scripture is given by inspiration of God. and is profitable for doctrine for reproof for correction, for instruction in righteousness. that the man of God may be perfect thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
    May we truly believe and obey. God help us to submit to His will and His word. May we not be guilty of adding our interpretation to His plain “thus saith the Lord.” and may we be found doing His will that He may say, “well done thou good and faithful servant, Enter thou in to the joy of the Lord.”

  • Grigor Zhelev

    Let’s begin to read the Holy Bible. This description is clean, clear, spoken exactly as did not speak any other (like Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” ).

    1 Corinthians 14:34-37
    34. “Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
    35. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
    36. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
    37. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.”
    I see that not one of us have God’s Word in our hearts brothers and sisters, Laodiceans. Laodiceans … Laodiceans … are we remember? We are the ones revolted from God, and that will be poured forth from the mouth of God … If we do not humble ourselves, we will not get his gifts, the largest of which is the salvation of our souls, and the Lord Jesus…

    Greetings from our Laodicean churches in Bulgaria. Greetings!

  • http://www.facebook.com/john.r.contreraz John R Contreraz

    Greetngs all. Here is my response to a Pro WO article by Stephen Allred:
    http://trueobedience.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Adventists-womens-ordination-HOLES-Rebuttal.pdf

  • AllForHim

    I know it has been said many times in many places, but it bears repeating in the midst of the noise on this site. Discrimination is the highest form of evil. The hypothesis of this site and the underlying principles is discriminatory. The scripture that is used to support it does not set aside the principle of equality before God and the admonition to do the same with each other. Doing otherwise rejects the “go and do likewise” council of Jesus in so many ways. Conviction and culture customs that this site promotes are evil and take the Lords’ name in vain. This is sin in it’s highest form.

    • Phyllis Lag

      This is so true.

    • A Servant

      This is all your own personal opinion. Where in the Bible does it ever say that “discrimination is the highest form of evil”? It doesn’t. I need to see this position backed up by a lot more Scripture before I could support it.

      And by the way, equal ***value*** before God doesn’t mean that everyone has the same roles. We can see this clearly in 1 Corinthians 12: “If the ear says, “Because I am not an eye, I am not part of the body”, is it therefore not of the body?” Clearly the eye and the ear have different roles, but they are both valuable parts of the body. Therefore, men and women can have different roles, in the home and in church, and still be treated with equal value.

      • jia Tang

        It actually is one the main points of the Bible – No Jew, No Gentile. The metaphor you use is exactly my point. The ear and eye have different roles, not different levels of control or power. That is the “evil” so-to-speak in the argument. When we take our cultural bias – male domination and combine it with God’s will we get a distortion. Once can easily argue that the name of site is pretty ironic. The global cultural position IS male domination. This is contrary to God’s ideal for us on so many levels.

        • Cherry

          how true. The world and our enemy wants us to loss sight of the ideal; man was created in the image of God; male and female. God has female and male traits. He made an image of Himself in creating female and male.

          • MAllem

            Actually Cherry
            If you look up the word “Elohim” you will see that word describing “God” is in the PLURAL use not singular. It also carries its translation as both male and female every time the word Elohim appears in the Hebrew Bible. The very opening of the Bible when it says ” in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” the word “God” is actually in the Hebrew translation “Elohim” which is male and female. No one can argue that this plural is the Father and the son for the son is a male, not a female.

            This is the failure of men and those translating the Bible to understand the EQUAL role of the Father and the Holy Sprit (Ruach) which is translated in the female gender in ALL of the Bible of which no man or scholar on this site will dare argue against by the Hebrew Bible definition.

          • Becky

            Sorry, but the Holy Spirit is not female or male. It’s a completely different creation. It’s part of the God head. Not human, like us.

    • Dee

      The votes are being passed due to the fact that committees are being
      formed politically by those that want women’s ordination. Those that
      are opposed are not being invited to the meetings. If we were to let
      the membership vote on this we would have another outcome. If this
      passes on the NAD, a second policy should be written freeing anyone
      against this to begin their own conference, church, etc. We are
      becoming more like the Catholic Denomination with the way were are
      controlling the people, placing people in office, etc. We too have our
      own “Bishops, and Pope.” We are top heavy. So many people in the
      higher offices, so much money going up to pay salaries of those that sit
      behind a desk. In the meantime we have pastors that have 2-5 churches
      and only being moved up if they are liked by the conference and “fit the
      bill.” We need something new!!!!!
      Unions serve no purpose, Black
      and White conferences should be more of an issue that needs to be
      addressed then women’s ordination. When will something real be done! What about all the discrimination that was just mentioned as I have written. Are you ready to speak out about that?

    • John

      This is such Jesuit nonsense. You have just called our Lord discriminatory. You are using Jesuit Liberation Theology, Jesuit Social Justice ideas, and propaganda to raise the emotions of people through your divisive casuistic remarks. Don’t speak for God. He didn’t give us an example of women leadership roles in church organization for a reason.

  • Phyllis Lag

    I just saw the trailer for the next Lincoln movie. It dawned on me that those that defend women’s discrimination re: ordination sound just like those that defended slavery from the Bible and fought the revolution that Lincoln drove. So much similarity, it is scary. Taking the Lord’s name in vain to defend discrimination is the most grotesque thing imaginable.

    • Cherry

      I agree with you. Ordination of men for ministry as we do now is not necessarily biblical. The ministers were not paid employees. Man was made in the image of God; male and female. both together are in the image of God.

    • http://www.facebook.com/eantonio97 Elijah A Secas

      and you base your opinion based on what you saw in a movie?
      The word of God is our only guide, and there is no such thing as a biblical reference to woman ordination. It is not discrimination, God just made it that way. Women can still helping the church in any other way

      • Tim

        Elijah,

        Cherry and Phyllis are actually right. Ordination is not a biblical concept so when one discriminates based on gender for ordination the definition is in fact “discrimination” and worse a mischaracterization of God. Phyllis is not basing her opinion on a movie, but she is using it to illustrative the comparative evil. God did not make one gender a church leader and another one not. That is a satanic notion.

        • Ilya Grandon

          Amen, Amen, and amen. It is nice to see some truth on this site. This cultural movement of discrimination based on gender is being stamped out as God influences open leaders and members to embrace the ideals of his Kingdom. Fundamentalism never wins, but God does.

          • John

            Spoken like a true Jesuitical social justice proponent, or Jesuitical liberation theology advocate. You are calling Christ discriminatory, and attacking the gender roles established after the fall. You also have NO SCRIPTURAL BACKING for your claims, no examples of women filling official leadership offices in the church in the Bible.

        • John

          “The primary object of our college was to afford YOUNG MEN an opportunity to study for the ministry and to prepare young persons of both sexes to become workers in the various branches of the cause.” 5T page 60.

          “Those who enter the missionary field should be men and women who walk and talk with God. Those who stand as ministers in the sacred desk should be MEN of blameless reputation.” 5T page 59

      • Henry Foy

        Actually Elijah, the Bible is not our only guide. That may be your logical and spiritual error. We Adentists believe in truth that is revealed in modern times based on a Biblical foundation. We see God’s work in the world everyday where he reveals more of Himself. In this latter revelation god is crystal clear in His blessing of female leadership. Saying otherwise is blind and a denial of God.

    • John

      That is a deluded opinion. It’s akin to saying that Christ is sexist and racist because he only sanctioned Jewish males to be priests under the Aaronic priesthood and Levite priesthood. These two examples are our models, and we have no model in the Bible for women holding leadership office positions in the church organization. It is seriously culturally Marxist and culturally terroristic to suggest that SDA historic understandings of gender roles are discriminatory. You are calling Christ sexist and discriminatory.

      I suppose you are either a college student, a socialist, a liberal, a cultural Marxist, a social justice advocate, or of some other ideological bent which is endemically anti-Christian to make comments like that.

      • Phillis Lag

        John, you are a little late the party here…and obvious late to God’s reform. If you are not mature enough to handle God’s insight and reform then I suggest you sit it out. Christ never once discriminated on gender. He never once discriminated on color. How can you connect him to Slavery? Totally stupid. The priesthood is not a Christian model so unless you are willing to live by all of the mosaic law I suggest you shut up about it. If the Bible is silent on a subject, that does not make that God’s will – how stupid and insane is that logic? We learn from seeing God work and in His work he is clear. He is blessing women fully in leadership – get over it you Bastard.

        I am not any of the things you assume I am and when did social justice become sin? I puke at the notion that we are not called to social justice.

        • John

          Well then I guess Ellen G. White was “discriminatory” as well.

          Might as well through out your copy of Adventist Home. It never was kosher or cultural Marxists anyway.

          And might as well quit the SDA religion, seeing it was founded upon sexist and discriminatory practices.

          Might as well quit Christ too, becuase according to these cultural terrorists, every single church He ever raised was discriminatory.

          Exercise AUTHORITY With Humility—It is no evidence of manliness in the husband for him to dwell constantly upon HIS POSITION AS HEAD OF THE FAMILY.
          It does not increase respect for him to hear him quoting Scripture to
          sustain his claims to authority. It will not make him more manly to
          require his wife, the mother of his children, to act upon his plans as
          if they were infallible. THE LORD HAS CONSTITUTED THE HUSBAND THE
          HEAD OF THE WIFE TO BE HER PROTECTOR; HE IS THE HOUSE-BAND OF THE
          FAMILY, BINDING MEMBERS TOGETHER, EVEN AS CHRIST IS THE HEAD OF THE
          CHURCH AND THE SAVIOUR of the mystical body. Let every husband who
          claims to love God carefully study the requirements of God in his
          position. Christ’s authority is exercised in wisdom, in all kindness and
          gentleness; so let the husband exercise his power and imitate the great Head of the church. {Adventist Home / AH 215.1}

          The Lawmaker and Priest—All members of the family center in the father. He is the lawmaker,
          illustrating in his own manly bearing the sterner virtues: energy,
          integrity, honesty, patience, courage, diligence, and practical
          usefulness. The father is in one sense the priest of the household,
          laying upon the altar of God the morning and evening sacrifice. The
          wife and children should be encouraged to unite in this offering and
          also to engage in the song of praise. Morning and evening the father, as priest of the household,
          should confess to God the sins committed by himself and his children
          through the day. Those sins which have come to his knowledge and also
          those which are secret, of which God’s eye alone has taken cognizance,
          should be confessed. This rule of action, zealously carried out by the
          father when he is present or by the mother when he is absent, will
          result in blessings to the family.5 {AH 212.1}

          The father represents the divine Lawgiver in his family.
          He is a laborer together with God, carrying out the gracious designs of
          God and establishing in his children upright principles, enabling them
          to form pure and virtuous characters, because he has preoccupied the
          soul with that which will enable his children to render obedience not
          only to their earthly parent but also to their heavenly Father.6 {AH
          212.2}

  • Richard Mann

    Yeah! Another union (NPUC) is opening a set of activities around ordination without regard to gender. More PUC women are ordained this week! The Netherlands Union Conference has taken strong action. The walls are coming down! Every single constituent vote taken has overwhelmingly proven that the authors and signers of this petition are of no consequence, marginal, and on the wrong side of this. Praise the Lord!

    • Dee

      The votes are being passed due to the fact that committees are being formed politically by those that want women’s ordination. Those that are opposed are not being invited to the meetings. If we were to let the membership vote on this we would have another outcome. If this passes on the NAD, a second policy should be written freeing anyone against this to begin their own conference, church, etc. We are becoming more like the Catholic Denomination with the way were are controlling the people, placing people in office, etc. We too have out own “Bishops, and Pope.” We are top heavy. So many people in the higher offices, so much money going up to pay salaries of those that sit behind a desk. In the meantime we have pastors that have 2-5 churches and only being moved up if they are liked by the conference and “fit the bill.” We need something new!!!!!
      Unions serve no purpose, Black and White conferences should be more of an issue that needs to be addressed then women’s ordination. When will something real be done!

      • Dee

        We are also forgetting the many pastors who are being discriminated against that homeschool their children. If they do not place their children in church school they are placed on a list not to get the bigger churches or positions in the conference office. Where is the plea to investigate and remedy this problem as well?

    • Gene Wright

      Richard, even more unions are coming on board. God will not be deterred . We are so blessed to see God overcoming a major social bias.

  • Mike T

    As a lifelong Adventist I find this site and its position closer to antichrist than Christ. It is truly ironic that the site interprets the Bible through cultural eyes and not those of Jesus. I wholeheartedly condemn the notions asserted here as a demonstration of the worst of Adventism, fringe-thinking, and foundational to the beliefs of David Koresh. We need to stamp this out and condemn male domination to hell.

    • Dee

      Mike, your comments seem to express the same spirit that you speak others have: “stamp out, condemn to hell?” You sound like you may be employed by the NAD as these are the tactics conferences are using to remove those that present views contrary to theirs? Let us love one another and seek to politely work in a Christian manner.

      • Mike T

        Sorry, not a NAD staffer…just a follow of Christ that condemned human hierarchical discrimination to the furthest reaches to hell. In all His words and actions we tore down the cultural and religious walls. Strong language is always appropriate to battle vicious lies that mischaracterize God and the Bible. This site optimizes the ignorance and fear of a fringe that can not be allowed to dominate the discussion any longer. That sin is behind us.

        I am very close to the process that conferences used and know that your lies can’t stand. It is political to be sure, but not a conspiracy to be sure. We have an order of governance that the “highest authority of God on earth” has approved. If you have problems with that, then you have a larger issue to battle. That battle is a fine one to wage, but not really our issue here is it?

        • Dee

          The order of governance is the highest authority on earth? What Bible texts supports that? Hmmm. . . something is not right here. Sound like Rev 13.

          • Mike T

            I don’t agree that it is the highest authority on earth (thus the quotes). I am simply referring to what this site ordains.

          • John

            All the pastors advocating WO have left the old paths, the foundations of the faith, but leaving the historic SDA hermeneutic of proof-texting. In one of the videos at teh Symposium on Nov. 4, 2013 a pastor openly admits to denying the validity of proof texting and to using modern theolgians hermeneutic tools to interpret the Bible. William Miller’s mind was directed by God’s angel, the angel Gabriel, into the truths that he found, and into the discovery of his rules of prophetic interpretation. Since the SDA leadership has renounced these rules, the leadership has left the platform of the truth, and nearly all of their explanations of scripture will be wrong now. “Those who are engaged in proclaiming the third angel’s message are
            searching the Scriptures upon the same plan that Father Miller adopted.
            In the little book entitled “Views of the Prophecies and Prophetic
            Chronology,” Father Miller gives the following simple but intelligent
            and important rules for Bible study and interpretation . . .” (RH November 25, 1884). EG White. The leadership is not following the same plan, therefore they are not actuated by the Holy Spirit as far as I can tell.

            The leadership is HEAVILY infiltrated with Jesuit priests, Dominicans, Maryknowlers, and Blue Army papal agents. They are the ones steering this movement.

            They are destroying all our old doctrines that make up peculiar from other Protestant churches, while bringing them all closer together with similar doctrine, and are following the Vatican II council agenda towards a global religion with the Pope at the head. This is ecumenism, infiltration, and subversion of our doctrines using Jesuit liberation theology, Jesuitical social justice, and subversion.

          • Mike T

            My new year’s resolution is to ban this site from my reading list and stop wasting time on battling the forces of evil that use the Bible to justify human norms that discriminate and support the silent abuse of women. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord on equal footing as Jesus promoted.

            In the words of a famous author… Good Bye and Thanks for all the fish.

          • Jia Tang

            I agree and will do the same. Good Bye all. I will leave you to your vices, assurances, and “clear” scripture. Those fantasies no longer interest me. I will live for what I believe and not waste time correcting others. I’ll leave that to God. Maybe He (err She) can be successful.

          • Scrubber

            good riddance, glad to see you go! Liars aren’t welcome here.

          • Justice

            Scrubber…denier of justice, blind to truth, and deaf to Jesus.

  • Dee

    The Scriptures are PLAIN! And that is why the NAD is trying to tell us that it is not plain! That is why at Andrews they are pushing the issue in an underhanded way! That is why three pastors got fired in PA! Because that is the why NAD will try to get its way! That is love?

    • Ruben Swekter

      LOL! Love the naivety! Keep it coming! The Bible has no guidance on the human practice of ordination to the gospel ministry.

      …of course this is political- it is not theological. This was settled theologically long ago by churches and church leaders. All human endeavors, including ordination, are political. The assumption that a referendum will reverse the representative votes is patently without facts. The ratio of support may be different, but it is naive to believe it as factual or opposite of current policy votes.

      There are some good points on the corruption, organizational irrelevance and ignorance of other discriminations (eg. black conferences, lifestyle choices), but the underlying premise wrong and far too late to the table.

      • Dee

        LOL read the Bible again:)

        • Jia Tang

          Yes, LOL! The scripture is far from plain when you read the actual words, understand the history, and seek to reconcile the inaccuracies, inconsistances, and human interjection. Your ignorance does not make it clear.

  • Dee

    What are we really prepared to do? Not only should we stand but if NAD gets its way as it is trying to force its way, via bullying, firing, not allowing those of a different opinion into certain offices (politics) or not hiring those opposed to them,we should separate and start a new conference of sorts for those that know the truth. The other denominations have needed to do it. Why not us if needed. Can two walk together unless they agree!

  • Dee

    In my research I came across this:

    http://www.ldolphin.org/waltke.html

    I hope it helps!

  • NUMB3Rz7

    http://www.christianforums.com/users/288834-albums5014-43041.jpg

    This is the authentic Twin Pillars of this Church… it undermines all of the issues that the entire world is facing, today. There’s a driving spirit behind this and we must wake up to this horrible wound that we have inflicted on God. He will be “Vindicated” some day soon, I fear. Study more of Ellen’s writings concerning how we must vindicate God. Has anybody concerned themselves or the Church be concerned about what we must do to vindicate God?

    God will be renowned in this last day, Daniel says, and it’s time to awaken to the infection of the wound. Band-aids are topical solutions and will not treat the wound.

    Study the real foundation of this women’s liberation issue, the REAL nature of it, and awake! God bless you all…

    • Jia Tang

      Stupid. Women’s liberation is Jesus’ movement. Please read the Gospels before posting lies here.

      • Concerned

        Stupid? That’s what you have resulted to, you’re blind to the corruption that comes from the 1848 movement. It was not about rights then, woman had to be first ordained equal to men, your view of equality is satanic and God’s view is to be equal in Glory by obedience; the wicked women that are in the world then have seeped into the churches along with their advocate, EGW. The sins of our fathers (and Ellen) has cursed this country. So, you’re saying that divorce and abortion is the works and intent of Jesus? You should repent!

        • Franco

          Yes stupid.

  • Dee
  • Dee
  • hlloyd

    Could the ordination of women be a solution to catholoic religious crisis? Less and less people go to church in Europe. This is a problem. Add to this the trials of monks involved in illegal sexual practices, and this makes me think that women have a major role to play in the catholic church.

    PS: don’t hesitate to check this page about meratol pills

    • John

      This is a Jesuit counter-reformation movement in order to weaken the church, cause division among the laity, force membership further down, change doctrines that make us peculiar, and unite us around common doctrines to fallen Protestant churches so that Rome can finish it’s Vatican council II plan of a global religion under the pope. We are so heavily infiltrated with Jesuits and other papal agents that only Jesus can fix this.

  • hlloyd

    Jesus is above us, and he is the truth that inspires me in my daily acts. Jesus is my way, my only path to the light and every day I do thank God and his son for my simple and modest life. I’m far away from all the artificial pleasures that make the decay of this world. Thank God, thank Jesus.

    Please, check my page here.

    • Kirk w

      Excellent. Women will rejoice that you denounce this site and the culture it promotes. Jesus does need us to stand against the tyranny of male dominated religion. It is He that broke down the barriers and spoke ok a kingdom where all are one at the banquet without regard to race, age, gender, or any other cultural distinction. Amen.

  • Jerry Minyo

    I can’t help but think that this site is a religious contribution to the abuse of women. See http://www.upworthy.com/if-you-know-someone-who-doesnt-believe-sexism-exists-show-them-this

    • George Tasker

      Hey Jerry,

      Women love some abuse. It gives them drama that they can talk about to their girlfriends about. If soap operas are anything to go by they absolutely love drama and will stick around such a guy for that very fact alone.

      So if this site is contributing to the abuse of women as you claim – bring them on over and let them enjoy some excitement, something which nice guys such as yourself are obviously denying them.

      • Yvonne Urtop

        I just saw this ridiculous response. This Tasker is not Christian. To hell with him.

        • George Tasker

          You always this judgemental Sunshine?

        • Wendy Ren

          Yvonne,
          I agree with you. You can see Tasker’s disgusting view of women in his response. I think hell is a good fit for him and all female haters. So good to see a strong back on this site. There are too many pulpits for male power hounds.

          • George Tasker

            So Tasker’s view is disgusting therefore it must be an inferior view to your own. Such logic is just so convincing!

          • Kendall Craft

            Hi all,

            I too see Tasker as an abusive (and likely violent) women hater in his words. He is a lone wolf crying in the wilderness. His kind will not prevail in God’s emerging reformation. Women are breaking free, not in a feminist power struggle, to embrace God’s given ministry of leadership. He is proving day in and day out that Tasker and friends are in the wrong and need to be silenced. He is accomplishing that task all around the world with vote after vote by committed Christians,blessing spiritual leadership gatherings by Women all over the world, and blessing currently ordained women. God is great and we are weak and subject to bias. We are overcoming :) !!!

          • George Tasker

            So Kendall believes in censorship of unpopular views. Be careful of what you wish for Kendall. The Pharisees and Sanhedrin thought that Jesus should be silenced as well. You must be one of their colleagues.

          • Kendall Craft

            Talk to the hand Tasker. Your abusive language is noise to me.

          • George Tasker

            Hello hand, where have you been all my life.

      • Jerry Minyo

        Wow, at least this site is abandoned and no one is actually reading it now…

        “Women Love abuse” just proves the point that cultural bias and hate of women permeate the church and even scripture in places. People that defend it are putting falsehood on top of falsehood. Notice that the strong voices are all old white males. There are exceptions, but you can see the point.

        • George Tasker

          If you think that what this old white male is saying about women in general to be bad you should see what the young black males are saying about women. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDC55_m56yg

          • peter Grundle

            If you want to hear the most vile things said about women, listen to Tasker and watch this video. George appears to be a misogynist true and true. What he references here would not appear on any site about God that I ran. This is a shame. I will allow myself one indiscretion and say that I hope he enjoys staring into God’s face at the judgement.

    • John

      I can’t help but think that you have been thoroughly indoctrinated in our accredited education institutions in Jesuit liberation theology, Jesuit social justice, and Jesuit cultural Marxism to make a comment like that. You’re stating that the entire temple services set up by Christ in the wilderness of Egypt, all the way down through the history of Israel, through the history of Adventism, was discriminatory and abusive to women. You are either a papal agent, a socialist, a liberal, or a brainwashed college student.

      • Defender of the Truth

        John,

        While there may be Jesuit infiltration in our church, WO is driven by those who are not wanting to follow what the Bible says but what it does not say. Please don’t hijack this site and AO with this theory and others you are promoting that are taking the focus off the issue at hand which is WO.

        • John

          Thanks Defender. I don’t feel I am taking the focus off the WO issue at all. What I am doing is exposing the fact that the WO issue IS POLITICIZING GENDER IN THE BIBLE. This is really much more than what the church believes about the Bible. Of course this movement would use the Bible to back up their claims–Satan knows the Bible better than any human. The issue with this person is that he doesn’t understand that the language he is using is feminist, which is Marxist, cultural Marxist to be exact, and that all forms its ideology are anti-Christian in nature. The Roman church teaches these same ideologies through social justice and liberation theology.

          It really upsets me when people say that our view is a “religious contribution to the abuse of women.” They are really attacking Christ and His word and calling Him abusive, bias, misogynist, and discriminatory.

          And lets be honest with each other. This movement is not some spontaneous thing. This was calculated, orchestrated, and planned methodically and purposefully to meld the church closer to the world and closer to all other denominations. The church would never be doing this without the influence of Rome. And check out my critique of Article A Section 5 of the Theology of Ordination document—it was undeniably written with a Catholic slant.

          Don’t be bias about my posts because we differ on the 2520.

          • Jerry Minyo

            Well, you can say what you like, but this site and it’s ilk promote the abuse and oppression of women. This is not God induced so there is no fear that I am calling God out for this sin. It is only man that follows satan into the temptation of putting a ceiling on women.

            Unlike your stupid comment that this is a well orchestrated rebellion, it is in fact a revival of God’s principles. It is rooting out the decades of evil upheld by our church as theology. There is no ordination of ministeres to the gospel in the Bible so it is complete BS to seek to build a theology around it that limits it to the male gender.

      • Becky

        That’s not what he’s saying at all! Good grief. He’s only making a personal comment. Stop being so judgmental of others. It’s a free country, you know.

  • MCC Mobility

    This is a another view on how women receive ordination. This explains it all.

    vans for wheelchair

  • Kim Salles

    It is so good to see so many commenters point out that Satan is using this site to distort the truth. The amazing irony that this site promotes culture over Christ is shocking and disgusting. The moment you have to sell something so hard tells us that the marketing has to make up for the weakness in the product. God is bigger then this so we are good.

  • Peter Aarne

    More news of God working at a union to allow God to work through the leadership talents of women. Amen!!! http://www.atoday.org/article/1948/news/july/netherlands-union-conference-votes-to-ordain-female-pastors
    There are more victories ahead!!

  • Peter Aarne

    We can celebrate that God continues to make His will know through the ordination of more women http://spectrummagazine.org/blog/2013/08/19/four-women-ordained-ohio. Fantastic!

  • Hadassah

    Consider this in light of the WO issues:

    “Many have tried neutrality in a crisis, but they have failed in their purpose. No one can maintain a neutral ground. Those who endeavor to do this will fulfill Christ’s words, “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon” (chap. 6:24). Those who begin their Christian life by being half and half, whatever may be their intentions, will at last be found enlisted on the enemy’s side.”
    EGW This Day With God, Page 240

    • Peter Fraggle

      Right, and this site and women haters alike are serving two masters. Trying to follow God, but bowing to culture and bias against women. I do consider them enlisted on the enemy’s side. Thanks for pointing this out.

  • Fred Pollard

    YIkes, this site has gone from bad to hellish. Some dude named Tasker is posting links to smutty videos and claiming that women want abuse. We now know the users of this site love Culture more than Christ. The devil mask is wearing thin.

  • Phyllis Lag

    It has been awhile since I dared look at this nasty site. A long time ago I said that taking the Lord’s name in vain to defend discrimination is the most grotesque thing imaginable. We can see this with our own peepers now with a couple of the recent comments made on this page. The discrimination spewed by this site is on a continuous of enslavement that men place on women. It is evil. It is not Biblical. It is not moral. It won’t last for long.

  • Peter Fraggle

    Another fail for the culture over Christ movement that this site promotes! A new female leader is chosen by God’s ordained leaders after much prayer! Yahoo!!

  • Yim Yong

    What a bogus site!!!!!

  • Kendall Frioll

    There is a special place in hell for the people that discriminate on gender in the name of God.

    • John

      There’s an even deeper place for those who disregard God’s gender roles by calling them stereotypes.

      • Kendall Frioll

        Spoken like someone already perpetrating hell on others.

  • Collis Trand

    You’ll see a recent rash of reactive comments by a poster called John. As you see, he is not representing God’s view. His use of the texts he has chosen to repeat over and over are representative of bad interpretation and theology. I consider the use of scripture in this manner unforgivable, naive, and irresponsible. I’ll let God deal with him, but lest you think he represents Christianity, please search further.

    • Kendall Frioll

      I agree, he is the equivalent of of drive-by shooter that doesn’t know or care about the victims of this view. What makes hims Unchristian is that he, like many others on this site, misuse scripture and find joy in repeating it over and over. God is shamed by that and we in Christ do not accept this misrepresentation of his name. You can see some of the comment that revel in abuse for women and think that females need to kept back for their own good. This bigotry and abuse has to stop and luckily it is being stopped in this cult and many other places. Amen!

  • Trista Ford

    I have recently heard that a radical fringe of the Adventist church has developed a theology of male headship. I always have believed that Adventists are a misguided cult that do not understand Christ’s teachings. I love their diet, but hate their view of God. After reading many comments here that disparage women and show a disdain for letting God produce female leaders I now firmly put Adventism in the cult column. I hate to do it, but there is no focus on Christ in these discussions. I for one am glad they are declaring themselves a cult because I have been confused for so long.

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  • dessie

    i would rather hear Jesus say to me ” you missed it! you could have become a pastor!” than go against his will and be lost forever.

  • Ron Stone M.D.

    Adam, I don’t know where you live, but out here in California, the SDA Church compromises in just about any area and with any idea. It’s the prevailing mantra.

  • orlando

    Yes you are correct River & Adam, Satan is busy trying to divide our church,…..

    Satan will do everything possible to derail us from the goal,….
    we need to keep focus on Jesus Christ and his teachings, and what he said for us to do; then we won’t be wasting energy and time on things that don’t really matter, and instead divide our church. there is NO room for comprising here, remember we CANNOT CONFORM to the world in any way,
    i am a woman/girl, and i know what it is i can do to help, the list is long, and i certainly don’t need to be ordained to preach, or spread the message.
    Laymans work is never done, and we need to learn to work with one another, in every branch, in our churches,..
    Team work!!
    we are God’s soldiers, and working together to reach our goal in the sinful battlefield is what we need to do. HEAVEN is our goal, the reward for our good works for the love of our God and his law will be there!!!
    Good will still win over evil, no matter what you and i decide to do.
    i can’t wait to see what Jesus has for me there, one thing for sure it will be alot better than being ordained as a pastor here, let’s pray for our pastor’s and help them in every way we can, their goal is our goal,……
    The second coming is near!!
    Teach me good Judgement and knowledge for i have belived thy commadments.
    Psalm 119:66
    AMEN!!
    much love and repect to my brothers and sisters in christ,… and remember God always first!!!!